Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Plugivery Forums _ Plug & Mix _ Gain Staging With Compressor/limiters
Posted by: corsi617 Aug 12 2014, 11:14 PM
I'm currently working in Logic X. I love the P&M compressors and limiters, however there seems to be a trend that as soon as I apply a plug-in as an insert into my chain, there is a 2dB - 3dB increase in level going through the plug-in. This is at the default setting with no compression or limiting applied. I then have to take the Trim back 2dB - 3B to make it even.
However, the more I increase compression/limiting, the gain gets louder. It's almost as if there is an auto gain setting, but it goes beyond what it should be.
Because of this, I never have to reach for the Make Up knob because its already too loud.
Maybe those Make Up knobs could default at 12:00 allowing the user to increase or decrease the output instead sort of like the Trim knob?
Posted by: Nick Aug 13 2014, 04:41 PM
However, the more I increase compression/limiting, the gain gets louder. It's almost as if there is an auto gain setting, but it goes beyond what it should be.
Because of this, I never have to reach for the Make Up knob because its already too loud.
Maybe those Make Up knobs could default at 12:00 allowing the user to increase or decrease the output instead sort of like the Trim knob?
Hello corsi617,
It is a bit strange that there would be a boost in level with the P&M compressors and limiters. There should be no change if there is no compression or limiting.
As you probably know once we apply compression or a limiter we have to make up the overall level as it drops as the compression lowers the levels overall.
I will take a look at this and get back to you.
Are you noticing the level reading on the channel or on the master when the track is soloed?
Best Regards,
Nick
Posted by: corsi617 Aug 14 2014, 03:30 PM
Thanks, Nick.
As quick test to be sure it wasn't my ears, I used the test oscillator plug-in in Logic X and generated white noise at -12dBFS. On my channel and main output meter is shows up correctly and level sits at -12.
When I insert, for example, the Retro Compressor, the meter in Logic X then jumps louder to -9dBFS. It is audible as well. This is just putting the compressor into the signal chain without modifying the settings. In order to equal the level again, I have to cut the Trim by -1.5 dB to get the main output level back to -12.
In theory, this would be a workable fix, however, when compression is added with a very fast attack, the output then increases again, as if some kind of auto gain is on.
For example, if I leave the attack setting all the way left at 0.20 ms and increase the compression to - 3 dB gain reduction, the main output then comes back up to -9 dBFS. But here's whats strange, when I increase compression even more, say to -5 dB and beyond, the level then starts to reduce as you normally would expect. Its almost as if there is a bump. This can also be achieved by setting the attack all the way to the right, applying -3 dB gain reduction, then sweeping the attack all the way to the left. Its more apparent to see the level increase as the attack moves faster.
One of the reasons I love the Retro Compressor so much is the way it smashes with the very fast attack. If that's a result of the volume increase buggy thing, then maybe its a good thing and shouldn't be fixed!
Posted by: Nick Aug 18 2014, 01:55 PM
As quick test to be sure it wasn't my ears, I used the test oscillator plug-in in Logic X and generated white noise at -12dBFS. On my channel and main output meter is shows up correctly and level sits at -12.
When I insert, for example, the Retro Compressor, the meter in Logic X then jumps louder to -9dBFS. It is audible as well. This is just putting the compressor into the signal chain without modifying the settings. In order to equal the level again, I have to cut the Trim by -1.5 dB to get the main output level back to -12.
In theory, this would be a workable fix, however, when compression is added with a very fast attack, the output then increases again, as if some kind of auto gain is on.
For example, if I leave the attack setting all the way left at 0.20 ms and increase the compression to - 3 dB gain reduction, the main output then comes back up to -9 dBFS. But here's whats strange, when I increase compression even more, say to -5 dB and beyond, the level then starts to reduce as you normally would expect. Its almost as if there is a bump. This can also be achieved by setting the attack all the way to the right, applying -3 dB gain reduction, then sweeping the attack all the way to the left. Its more apparent to see the level increase as the attack moves faster.
One of the reasons I love the Retro Compressor so much is the way it smashes with the very fast attack. If that's a result of the volume increase buggy thing, then maybe its a good thing and shouldn't be fixed!
Hello corsi617,
Thanks for testing and getting back with the results.
It is strange that you are getting an increase in level just placing it as an insert.
I will past this on to the developers to hear what they say.
No chance that the 'mix' level is at 50% and combining the 'dry' and 'wet' signals, that could add together and give a bump in level?
Best Regards,
Nick
Posted by: Nick Aug 19 2014, 10:57 AM
Hello corsi617,
I heard back from the developers and the 'gain' is normal and part of the design of the plug-in.
The Retro Compressor is modeled to duplicate the vintage compressors behavior that did include a jump in the gain when it is include in the signal chain, it is part of the sound. When one chained an Altec, Pultec or Urei there was a slight jump in level.
It is part of the sound of the plug-in.
When the plug-in is in bypass the signal is at the same level as the input.
Best Regards,
Nick
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)