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Agitation Not Working
polimorfos
post Apr 18 2011, 04:01 PM
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I purchased the GRM 3 tools collection and agitation doesn't seem to be working at all in ANY of the GRM plugins (AU or VST) in the latest versions of Ableton Live or Logic.

Mac OS 10.6.7 Intel Core i5.

Any ideas why this may be happening? Can I be the only one experiencing this?

This post has been edited by polimorfos: Apr 18 2011, 04:22 PM
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polimorfos
post Apr 18 2011, 04:59 PM
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I got it to work only in Pitch Accumulator and it only 'agitates' the random modulation parameters it seems.

QUOTE (polimorfos @ Apr 18 2011, 05:01 PM) *
I purchased the GRM 3 tools collection and agitation doesn't seem to be working at all in ANY of the GRM plugins (AU or VST) in the latest versions of Ableton Live or Logic.

Mac OS 10.6.7 Intel Core i5.

Any ideas why this may be happening? Can I be the only one experiencing this?
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Loopy C
post Apr 18 2011, 08:18 PM
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QUOTE (polimorfos @ Apr 18 2011, 08:59 AM) *
I got it to work only in Pitch Accumulator and it only 'agitates' the random modulation parameters it seems.


It is a known issue that they do not render/bounce but I have not heard of anyone not having them function at all? What about 'Standalone'...here are some settings that should have everything shaking around:



Please note all the required settings for proper operation are here:



This post has been edited by Loopy C: Apr 18 2011, 08:41 PM


--------------------
Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
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Loopy C
post Apr 18 2011, 08:36 PM
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I just double-checked in Live 8.2.2 and it is working here (at least just free-running, not render as already noted). Can you take a screenshot of your settings? (command-shift 4 then hit spacebar to take sc of window of choice, 'plug-in only' in this case). Services like the free 'Photobucket' are available if you do not have a place to host/link screenshot.

http://photobucket.com/


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Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
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polimorfos
post Apr 19 2011, 04:44 AM
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QUOTE (Loopy C @ Apr 18 2011, 09:36 PM) *
I just double-checked in Live 8.2.2 and it is working here (at least just free-running, not render as already noted).


Even stand alone is not working for me. (As I mentioned, Pitch Accumulator is the only working so an example setting for another app would be more helpful smile.gif ).

Here is a simple BandPass setup processing a simple 440hz tone so I make sure I can hear if it's working.


Doesn't do anything when I turn agitation on.
What parameters are "agitated" when agitation is used - is there anyway to find this info?
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Loopy C
post Apr 19 2011, 08:26 AM
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Ah, thats what I thought was happening (a picture is worth a thousand words) ;-)

In your screenshot, not a single parameter is 'enabled' to 'Agitate'. Do you see in my screenshot the bright magenta rectangles? Those are what enable a parameter.

You have:



No parameter is enabled for 'Agitator'.

You SHOULD have this:



The magenta 'buttons' to direct right of numbers in an 'on' state are bright for any selected parameter. For any 'Agitator' connected effect, you will have a dull magenta clickable area directly to right of numeric field, click THAT to enable. HTH ;-)

This post has been edited by Loopy C: Apr 19 2011, 09:08 AM


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Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo | 2 GB RAM | OSX 10.9.3 | Logic X
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Loopy C
post Apr 19 2011, 08:39 AM
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btw, here is what manual has to say about 'Agitator':


Agitation

This set of controllers is used to add random variations to the processing parameters. The left
hand turn button gives the amplitude (from 0% to 100%) of the random variation. The right
hand turn button gives the speed of the variations (from 0 to 60 s). The On/Off button
located below the two turn buttons activates the variations.

In addition, the magenta button located to the right of each alphanumeric value
enables control of the effect of the variation for each individual parameter. When the button
is light, the parameter is subjected to the variation, when it is dark, the variation has no
effect.


Caution : In the default configuration, agitation is de-activated for all parameters.


emphasis mine ;-)

This post has been edited by Loopy C: Apr 19 2011, 08:56 AM


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Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo | 2 GB RAM | OSX 10.9.3 | Logic X
iPad GEN 3 | 60 GB | IOS 7.1.1
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polimorfos
post Apr 19 2011, 01:21 PM
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QUOTE (Loopy C @ Apr 19 2011, 09:39 AM) *
btw, here is what manual has to say about 'Agitator':


Agitation

This set of controllers is used to add random variations to the processing parameters. The left
hand turn button gives the amplitude (from 0% to 100%) of the random variation. The right
hand turn button gives the speed of the variations (from 0 to 60 s). The On/Off button
located below the two turn buttons activates the variations.

In addition, the magenta button located to the right of each alphanumeric value
enables control of the effect of the variation for each individual parameter. When the button
is light, the parameter is subjected to the variation, when it is dark, the variation has no
effect.


Caution : In the default configuration, agitation is de-activated for all parameters.


emphasis mine ;-)


How did I miss this? I just searched for agitation in the manual but somehow this escaped me... oops blink.gif . Thanks!
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polimorfos
post Apr 19 2011, 02:17 PM
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I got very confused because agitation worked in Pitch Accumulator.

I just checked now and agitation is modulating some parameter even though the magenta button is not illuminated for any function... curious.

OK - I checked again and discovered agitator was modulating the amplitude of the random modulation even though the agitation destination button was not illuminated. I turned the magenta button on and off and it is behaving normally now. Small bug...

Also, when agitation was modulating the amplitude (when the destination light was off), there was no visual feedback in the GUI of any agitation occurring in amplitude.

This post has been edited by polimorfos: Apr 19 2011, 02:25 PM
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Loopy C
post Apr 20 2011, 11:38 PM
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QUOTE (polimorfos @ Apr 19 2011, 06:17 AM) *
I got very confused because agitation worked in Pitch Accumulator.

I just checked now and agitation is modulating some parameter even though the magenta button is not illuminated for any function... curious.

OK - I checked again and discovered agitator was modulating the amplitude of the random modulation even though the agitation destination button was not illuminated. I turned the magenta button on and off and it is behaving normally now. Small bug...

Also, when agitation was modulating the amplitude (when the destination light was off), there was no visual feedback in the GUI of any agitation occurring in amplitude.


I have not necessarily seen what you describe but will keep an eye out for it in the future...if you are able to duplicate/experience it again be sure and get a report in. The key to these things is getting all the info to grm in a manner that allows them to duplicate and identify exact circumstance, conditions, and configuration so they can put on their list to address/fix ;-)


--------------------
Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo | 2 GB RAM | OSX 10.9.3 | Logic X
iPad GEN 3 | 60 GB | IOS 7.1.1
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polimorfos
post Apr 21 2011, 02:16 AM
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QUOTE (Loopy C @ Apr 20 2011, 11:38 PM) *
I have not necessarily seen what you describe but will keep an eye out for it in the future...if you are able to duplicate/experience it again be sure and get a report in. The key to these things is getting all the info to grm in a manner that allows them to duplicate and identify exact circumstance, conditions, and configuration so they can put on their list to address/fix ;-)


I am able to duplicate this. Open Pitch Accumulator. Raise random amplitude to 15% or so. Turn on agitation at 100%. Toggling agitation on and off clearly shows agitation is modulating "random amplitude" even though magenta button is off and there is no visual feedback in the GUI.

Turn magenta button on and off and occasionally things seem to function as normal though sometimes it continues to agitate even though magenta button is off.

I sent a report in though I never got a response from my report a few days ago...
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Loopy C
post Apr 21 2011, 03:42 AM
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QUOTE (polimorfos @ Apr 20 2011, 06:16 PM) *
I am able to duplicate this. Open Pitch Accumulator. Raise random amplitude to 15% or so. Turn on agitation at 100%. Toggling agitation on and off clearly shows agitation is modulating "random amplitude" even though magenta button is off and there is no visual feedback in the GUI.

Turn magenta button on and off and occasionally things seem to function as normal though sometimes it continues to agitate even though magenta button is off.

I sent a report in though I never got a response from my report a few days ago...


Well like me they might not have been able to duplicate yet...I recreated your scenario and everything worked as expected. At 15% amplitude then the immediately above frequency setting determines a heard change in sound randomly. I tried several different ways and in all cases there was no change in this operation when Agitator was on/off and there was expected agitation of parameter ONLY when enabled (magenta box) AND Agitator on. Otherwise amplitude remained at set percentage both visually and aurally with effect determined by settings immediately above and below (after all the 'random' section means a random change of 'Amplitube'/'Frequency' is added regardless of Agitator, agitator only changes percentage of amplitude). Are you experiencing that a 0% setting of 'Amplitude' is heard to change to some different percentage with agitator 'enable' off? As I said, I never detect any change other than the 'random' part that should happen.

Is there some more obvious indicator you are experiencing that I am not understanding? You said:

" Toggling agitation on and off clearly shows agitation is modulating "random amplitude" even though magenta button is off and there is no visual feedback in the GUI."

You say 'shows', often a visual reference and then say there is no visual indication, I detect no difference in audio out in recreating your scenario...are you seeing anything at all that is changing? The amplitude of audio should be changing by 15% randomly with no agitation right ?

This post has been edited by Loopy C: Apr 21 2011, 03:51 AM


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Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo | 2 GB RAM | OSX 10.9.3 | Logic X
iPad GEN 3 | 60 GB | IOS 7.1.1
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polimorfos
post Apr 21 2011, 05:08 AM
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QUOTE (Loopy C @ Apr 21 2011, 03:42 AM) *
Otherwise amplitude remained at set percentage both visually and aurally with effect determined by settings immediately above and below (after all the 'random' section means a random change of 'Amplitube'/'Frequency' is added regardless of Agitator, agitator only changes percentage of amplitude). Are you experiencing that a 0% setting of 'Amplitude' is heard to change to some different percentage with agitator 'enable' off? As I said, I never detect any change other than the 'random' part that should happen.


Actually it seems like agitator is modulating random frequency, not amplitude. I started with a sine tone, added an instance of Pitch Accumulator. I then raised the amplitube to above 10% with frequency at 0% (very slow modulation but audible). Turning on agitator without the magenta light sounds exactly like when I assign agitator to random frequency. In fact, when I assign agitator to frequency, toggling the light (next to frequency) on and off (while agitator is on) results in no change of sound - it sounds exactly like agitator is modulating frequency regardless if it is assigned via the button.

QUOTE
You said:
" Toggling agitation on and off clearly shows agitation is modulating "random amplitude" even though magenta button is off and there is no visual feedback in the GUI."


Yes, I was incorrect in this statement. I meant agitation was audibly modulating some parameter without assigning the magenta button to anything. I could not see any slider randomly moving is what I meant by no visual feedback. I'm now almost certain that agitator for some reason is permanently assigned to frequency, regardless of the button status. Try your tests with frequency at 0% and see if you have the same results as me...
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Loopy C
post Apr 21 2011, 06:09 AM
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QUOTE (polimorfos @ Apr 20 2011, 09:08 PM) *
Actually it seems like agitator is modulating random frequency, not amplitude. I started with a sine tone, added an instance of Pitch Accumulator. I then raised the amplitube to above 10% with frequency at 0% (very slow modulation but audible). Turning on agitator without the magenta light sounds exactly like when I assign agitator to random frequency. In fact, when I assign agitator to frequency, toggling the light (next to frequency) on and off (while agitator is on) results in no change of sound - it sounds exactly like agitator is modulating frequency regardless if it is assigned via the button.



Yes, I was incorrect in this statement. I meant agitation was audibly modulating some parameter without assigning the magenta button to anything. I could not see any slider randomly moving is what I meant by no visual feedback. I'm now almost certain that agitator for some reason is permanently assigned to frequency, regardless of the button status. Try your tests with frequency at 0% and see if you have the same results as me...


Thanks for details, I will check it out again here with your clarifications next chance I get ;-)


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Chris R. Gibson | GRM 3.0 Complete
MacBook Pro 2.8 Ghz (Mid 2010) | 8 GB RAM | OSX 10.6.8 | Logic 9.1.3
Mac Pro 2.66 Ghz (Nehalem 8 Core) | 16 GB RAM | OSX 10.8.5 | Logic 9.1.8
MacBook Pro 2.4 Ghz Core 2 Duo | 2 GB RAM | OSX 10.9.3 | Logic X
iPad GEN 3 | 60 GB | IOS 7.1.1
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polimorfos
post Apr 21 2011, 02:49 PM
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Just received this confirmation from GRM support -

"Hi,

Thank you. But it seems that agitation is modulating "random frequency" rather than "random amplitude".
It will be fixed in a next update."
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