Monster Boost causes severe comb filtering / phase cancellation when bypassed in Pro Tools.

If the plug-in is made innactive, there is no problem. Likewise if it is removed, but bypassing causes a severe phase misalignment.




1. PC

2. Windows 7 (Home Premium) service pack 1

3. Pro Tools 11.3.1 (with Plug & Mix VIP version 3.3)

4. External audio interface

5. No 3rd party software in use

6. Command 8 control surface in use

Some Plug & Mix EQ plug-ins are not reporting correct data to control surface with Pro Tools:



Retro Equalizer Frequency dials do not report frequency values, instead they display a control position value (Gain controls function correctly).


Liquid AIR-Q Low Frequency dial does not report frequency values, instead it displays a control position value (all other controls function correctly).


Retro Filter All Frequency dependent controls do not report frequency values, instead they display a control position value.



I've only tested this with a Digidesign Command | 8, so it may be unique to that particular Avid surface.


1. PC

2. Windows 7 (Home Premium) service pack 1

3. Pro Tools 11.3.1 (with Plug & Mix VIP version 3.3)

4. External audio interface

5. No 3rd party software in use

6. Command 8 control surface in use

Hi Nick,


Yes.

The entire mix ends up routed through a mix bus, which outputs directly to the hardware outputs.

The hardware outputs are selected as the bounce source, in Pro Tools "bounce to disk" dialog, and the bounce is performed "Offline", i.e faster than realtime.

The bounced file is automatically imported to a new track, in sample accurate sync with the original, and is output directly to the hardware outputs (i.e. there is no accidental double bussing. It's not routing through the mix bus a second time).

Both the multi-mono Trim, and the multi-channel EQ III stock Avid plug-ins are used (independently of course) to invert the phase of the imported, bounced file.

The track levels, and panoramas, are not adjusted.




The tracks that I first noticed this on were :

Drum F/X channel, which comprised of P&M Digital Reverb > Analoger > Monster Boost

Bass Guitar, which used P&M Retro Compressor > American Tweed > Retro Equalizer


In some cases there were additional 3rd party plug-ins, between the various instances of P&M plug-ins, in others it was P&M only.

In either case, a single P&M plug-in did not exhibit any issues during null tests - it is only when two, or more P&M plug-ins are present on any given track, that it exhibits artefacts.


I doubt it's directly related, but I have observed that Monster Boost causes severe comb filtering / phase issues, when it is bypassed (I will flag this up as a separate issue).


Cheers!

I'm also too much of a luddite to figure out how to edit my previous post further (after having signed out), but point 6 should have mentioned that Offline Bounce had been used, so could possibly be a factor (though I've never had any previous issues between realtime, and offline bounces in Pro Tools 11).

There was in fact no control surface present, when I discovered the above mentioned bug, not that would be a factor either way (although I have discovered a bug on at least one of the P&M EQ plug-ins, whereby the predetermined frequency bands on the gui : 60Hz / 75Hz / 100Hz etc appear on the control surface as 1 / 2 / 3 etc. When I have time to do a more detailed test, I will post about this issue separately).

Cheers!

I've noticed what I believe is a bug, whereby any track that has 2 or more Plug & Mix plug-ins inserted, will not null, when a printed down-mix is compared to real-time session playback.

This was with a full mix. I haven't tried it with individual tracks, but presumably it would be the same.

The material that is audible during a null test, modulates in volume, and flails wildly all over the stereo sound field.




1. PC

2. Windows 7 (Home Premium) service pack 1

3. Pro Tools 11.3.1 (with Plug & Mix VIP version 3.3)

4. External audio interface

5. No 3rd party software in use

6. Command 8 control surface in use

I just wanted to say a big thanks to you guys, as version 3.3 has fixed these issues.

I'm not sure if that fix was already in the pipeline, but if it was me that brought it to your attention, that's an incredibly fast addition to the fix list (I know 3.3 was already due to be released, before I'd even mentioned these problems).

Very impressed.


The only, very minor, problem (which was already there, but I stupidly forgot to mention it - my apologies) is that with Echoflex, if the synch switch is engaged from the control surface ; the switch graphic flips, but the outer ring does not change scale, and the knob continues to function in whichever mode it was previously in.

Again, my apologies for not bring this to your attention last time - thankfully it's a pretty minor issue.

Thanks again.

Cheers Nick, that's what I thought.

Just checking though, is Chainer included in the 3.3 installer, or does it need to be installed separately (I noticed two distinct installers on the P&M download page, both of which seemed to be about 650MB in size).

Also, 3.3 fixed 99.9% of the controller issues I was having - very happy.

Cheers!

I may be wrong, but Chainer is not part of the VIP bundle.

It's free to use for chaining registered P&M plug-ins, but if you want to use it to host VSTi's, you'd need to purchase it separately.

Though if I'm wrong about that... I wont complain.

Cheers Nick!

Hi,

I've noticed that there is a serious problem when version 3.2 AAX 64bit Plug and Mix plug-ins are used with the Digidesign / Avid Command 8 control surface.

Using the endless encoders, any control turned fully clockwise will disappear from the GUI, and exhibit values higher than 100%.

Likewise, rotating the encoders so that a control is turned fully anti-clockwise, will again cause the control to vanish from the GUI, but in the case of a "Mix" control will also either produce a loud digital buzzing noise, or cause Pro Tools to crash almost immediately.



I haven't had the time (or the inclination) to try this with the entire range of plug-ins comprising the VIP bundle, but it occurred with every one of them that I tested (Analoguer / Echoflex / Digital Reverb, among others).


To be clear, even if the Command 8 is being used, or has the plug-in focused, it is still possible to use the mouse to grab the GUI controls without causing any issue - it's only when a rotary encoder goes beyond the point which the plug-in deems to be maximum / minimum.



I tried further tests, using the RTAS version of the VIP bundle in Pro Tools 10, and everything worked correctly - although not only is that an entirely different plug-in format, operating in a 32bit environment, it was also a different version of the plug-ins (3.0.2 if I recall), so I'm not sure what, if anything, that proved.




Is this an issue with other Digidesign / Avid / Eucon control surfaces?

Is it an issue with Pro Tools 11?

Is it a known bug, that is due to be fixed?



Many thanks.




1. PC

2. Windows 7 (Home Premium) service pack 1

3. Pro Tools 11.3.1 (with Plug & Mix VIP version 3.2.0)

4. External audio interface

5. No 3rd party software in use

6. Command 8 control surface in use

Cheers Nick, I'll keep an ear out for the IRCAM - although I'm probably not in the market for another timestetch / pitchshift plug-in right now, what with Melodyne, Elastic Audio, and a couple of other tools I have.

To be honest, I don't think I've ever heard a real-time pitch shifting effect that sounds completely "natural" on guitars, it's just an interesting sound / effect in it's own right, to my ears.

If you want to get down with the kids, here's a pretty good example of pitch shifting a Bass guitar up, to give the impression of a regular guitar doubling up :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHBJpCjq50E

Cheers!

Hi Nick,

with regards to Octaplexer, I was suggesting adding two octaves above the input signal (not another two octaves below the existing sub-octaves).

For exactly the reasons you stated, it can be really useful (on occasion) to take a bass instrument, and generate higher octaves above the input signal.

Often you'll get guitarists using octave dividers to create the impression of a doubled up bass line. What I'm suggesting would be the exact opposite - a bassist adding upper octaves to create the impression of a lead line.



I'll take a look at your suggestion for using automation lanes to adjust the controls of Ambiosoniq .

Generally I prefer to dial the sound in, before adding automation, as it can upset the workflow a little downstream, and I also had a feeling that in the past I was automating a P&M plug-in (can't remember which right now) and the units displayed in the automation lane bore no relation to the units used on the plug-in GUI - like one was in dB, and the other was in percentages - which made things a little tricky.


I am using Pro Tools, and as I mentioned, your plug-ins are sorted by category, as well as manufacturer, which has certainly helped me track down some of the more obliquely named plug-ins - I just found that some of the names were not immediately obvious as to the plug-in's function, or one did what you expected another to do, going by name alone (the number of times I've pulled up Liquid Air Q, when I was looking for Ambiosoniq, or I've been hunting around the amp simulations, unable to find the Vox simulator, because it's name does not adhere to the convention established by your other three amp sims, and it's much further down the list of plug-ins available).

I totally get where the names come from, or how they are derived, and it's certainly part of the charm.

Like I said, It's probably just me being a bit thick at times, but I feel it definitely is a case of having to learn the P&M plugs by names, as much as function - and I feel that slightly goes against your original ethos.

If perhaps there were additional meta-data / tags that could be included "behind the scenes", so that for example, all your amp simulations appear next to each other in the plug-in list (whether in the manufacturer list, or the category lists), and likewise with your EQ's and dynamics, rather than being scattered around alphabetically - which relies on numbskulls like myself actually remembering the names (though I am getting there).

It's not so much a problem when manufacturers only have a handful of plug-ins to choose from, but as we're now looking at 45 plug-ins - only a handful of which I use on every mix, the others being pulled up as and when the situation demands - that's a lot of names to remember.

Still, I really can't wait to get my hands on those five new plug-ins!

Cheers!

Hi Nick,

a couple of suggestions for improvements in your existing plug-ins :

Octaplexer : could we have a 3 pole switch added, giving the options of the regular 2 octaves below (sub-octaves) mode, 1 octave above / 1 octave below mode, and 2 octaves above (would that be sur-octaves?) mode.

Ambiosoniq : could the throw of the graphic EQ faders be extended / enlarged. Whilst the current design is adhering to the general aesthetic principles of P&M, the faders are rather bunched up, which makes them difficult to use when subtle changes are required.

I'm slowly getting used to the oblique naming conventions for some of the plug-ins (that's all part of the charm), and I'm gratful that you've taken the time to tag the plug-ins in terms of functionality, or I'd probably never find some of them in Pro Tools.

Please don't go too way out there with the names of future plug-ins, as I do sometimes find myself hunting around, and auditioning several of your plug-ins, whilst trying to find a specific one which isn't immediately obvious in terms of it's name - that may just be me, but all those minutes add up at the end of the day, and considering the manifesto of Plug & Mix, it's a little ironic that whilst the plug-ins themselves sound fantastic, and help speed up the workflow, finding the right one can slow things down because of something as simple as the plug-in's name.

Love the product though, and really looking forward to the new additions.

Cheers!